Japan Report: Acura NSX Powertrain Taking Shape
As Honda engineers continue to work away in secret on the new V-10 engine for the Acura NSX replacement, now comes word that Honda's not just looking for power, torque and speed, but also class topping eco numbers from this stellar new engine.
The understanding in Tokyo's Honda watching circles is that the new normally-aspirated V-10 will displace around 5.0-liters, push out 500+ brake horsepower and no less remarkably, achieve a 10.0 km/l rating (equal to 23.5 mpg) rating in Japan's standard 10.15-mode fuel cycle.
Putting that into perspective, the last NSX Type R with 3.2-liter V-6 and 276 bhp was an 8.6 km/l car in Japan.
That's one helluva challenge to hit those numbers—but if anyone can do it, the smart money says Honda can.
Comments
Steve
Two thoughts:
1. GM did the 500hp w/ that kind of mileage already... LS7...
2. Awesome. Just awesome. The more motors like this out there, the better off we are... especially when the technology starts trickling down... :-D
Rob
Yes, GM is ahead of everybody, thats why they are doing so great and smashing the competition (toyota, honda and nissan) all over the place :D When I see a LS7 achieve these figures with my own eyes, i may beleive it.
Maxwell
GM acheived those mileage figures by having an overdrive gear that runs the engine at something like 1600rpm at 60mph. The LS7 is a marvelous engine, but it will pale in comparison to the technology packed into the new Honda V10.
I think this engine will feature Honda's new Advanced V-tec setup. The original NSX introduced the world to V-tec, so it would make sense for the new model to continue that tradition.
biturbo
Sure the new V10 from Honda will be advanced, etc, etc. But it will be 3 times more expensive than the LS7. If you have the money for the new NSX, go ahead.
Steve
The LS7 has the power to run comfortably at those low engine speeds... and the Z06 is light enough to make it feasible... That doesn't make the mileage figures any less impressive. For what it's worth, I'd like to see how this new Honda motor runs at 1600rpm at 60mph...
Making old technology work well is just as important as making new technology work. If not more.
If an old-school motor with some new-school development can be physically smaller, lighter, more powerful, more efficient, and have a lower center of gravity than a new, high tech motor... Where's the problem?
Also, I feel it's necessary to reiterate that I'm not knocking this new Honda motor at all. In fact, I think it's great. It's different than the LS7 that I mentioned, and I think that's wonderful. Different is not a bad thing.
Dave K
lol... pale in comparison.
Yea that horrible old LS7 will make the same horsepower and most assuredly more torque in a simpler package than the wizz bang Honda V10.
And when it's imported to the states I guarantee that '500 horsepower' is going to morph in to 380-420 hp to deal with the crappy gas we have.
And the thing is probably going to cost 30-40k more than a loaded Z06.
I like the NSX, it's a cool looking car with great handleing but sheesh... today it's not even in the same class as the Z06 (other than cost). Too slow to be anything but a back marker. The Stig coudn't get it to perform at the level of the Audi S4 FAMILY SEDAN, much less match up to the fast cars on the list.
The NSX is BADLY in need of this retooling, but there's never been a truly fast production NSX, and as far as matching up to the Z06 in both performance AND economy... I'll believe it when I see it.
I've got a modified LT1 chevy... it made 27mpg stock with 300hp and gets 25mpg with over 400. Chevy doesn't artificially inflate their mileage claims like the Japanese manufacturers have been doing with their hybrids.
You act as if using a second overdrive for fuel economy is bad... the reason the LT and then LS series engines can run 1600 at 70 is because they have GOBS of torque, just one more way that those engines show their outstanding design.
Don
23.5 mpg...riiiiiiiiiiight.
naggs
"GM acheived those mileage figures by having an overdrive gear that runs the engine at something like 1600rpm at 60mph. The LS7 is a marvelous engine, but it will pale in comparison to the technology packed into the new Honda V10."
i dont get people like this. they grudgingly accept the numbers torque, hp, mpg, size and weight of the LS7 and will even admit that it is better in all of those than some much more expensive engines but they still say its low tech so not as good.
how can it be better in every measurable way but still not be good enough for you? you guys just want complexity for complexity's sake.
im sure the new honda v10 will be a wonderful engine but if it gets worse milage and worse torque out of a more expensive package its NOT AS GOOD. i dont see how anyone can argue otherwise.
doglet
i bet an old NSX with an LS7 swapped in would be stupid fast. would also make the vtech fanboys cry.
STJ
I don't think a nsx would handle very wel with a LS7 in the back.
Mena
"im sure the new honda v10 will be a wonderful engine but if it gets worse milage and worse torque out of a more expensive package its NOT AS GOOD."
Because a large displacement engine SHOULD be good at making power and torque and, with a little modern tech sprinkled in there, SHOULD be great on gas. BORING!!! Ho friggin hum!!! It's a no brainer, no effort, no creativity way of making a motor. Making a mouse motor with big power is MUCH more difficult and requires ingenuity and effort. I respect that effort greatly and am impressed with how the Japan can even be in the same ballpark as these massive, old tech engines. It's inspiring.
Dante
OHCs are old tech, too guys, going back to at least the early 1910's. I won't be impressed unless they use rotary valves actuated by stepper motors and really have variable valve timing. That would be the only next revolutionary step next to solenoid actuated poppet valves, though those would weigh a lot more and would make for worse packaging even if they got them reliable enough for a consumer car.
Hans
There seems to be some uncertainty as to what fuel economy means. The LS7 may be able to go 24 miles with a galon, in top gear, at 60 mph, but not in any other situation, that is the maximum it can acheive. The EPA requrements for testing, while ridiculous, at least make things even for everybody, and the japanese are using those standards to their advantage, its the regulations fault, if there is any (about the comment that japanese are posting false figures). Back to the engine, Ford GT, with an engine similar to the one in LS7, got 1-2 mpg in track test, i suppose the LS7 will get something similar. After all, the point of those cars is performance, if anybody wanted economy, they should get the VW Lupo 3L diesel, which does around 75 mpg. The thing is that honda, by using their F1 engineering expertise, and applying these new technilogies, should be able to get this 10 km/l fuel economy in everyday combined cycle, not just in one gear going downhill.
Hans
Oh, and the Lamborghini Diablo was also able to take off in fifth gear, had massive torque, 17 years ago.
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Dan
Don't forget that the EPA figures do not translate directly in the Japanese 10-15 mileage cycle. 23.5 mpg on the Japanaese test does not mean the same rating with the EPA. The testing methods are quite different.
For example, the Infiniti G35/Skyline 350GT gets similar EPA numbers to the Corvette, 19/26 or 27 depending on the number of pedals.
On the Japanese cycle, it gets 8.8L/km, which equals 20.7mpg.
So Honda aiming for 23.5 would be a significant difference.
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the_117
i drove with my friend to vegas in a 3600lb jeep (with the aerodynamic properties of a barn and 4wd) that had a 400hp 3.9 cummins and recorded up to 28mpg at 70mph on 100 percent biodiesel.
the engine came from an old mail truck and had 75k miles on it.
the nsx has so much technology and can't beat what 2 decade old technology can do.
anyone who will spend a whole bunch of money and not get anything for it is an idiot.
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Weavz
"i drove with my friend to vegas in a 3600lb jeep (with the aerodynamic properties of a barn and 4wd) that had a 400hp 3.9 cummins and recorded up to 28mpg at 70mph on 100 percent biodiesel.
the nsx has so much technology and can’t beat what 2 decade old technology can do."
Are you saying that a Diesel engine is designed for the same purposes as an NSX? That's a great comparison! Cause obviously someone who is looking for a sports car that looks great, and has great performance on a track all the while being wrapped in plush leather and enough technology in the cockpit to make Bill Gates Jealous would go to a JEEP Dealership looking to fill this need?
Type R
Uhhh whoever was talking about the NSX never being fast.
The NSX-R was the performance model built for the course. The STIG took the NSX-R in the rain. So you should probably shave 4-5 seconds off that time you see on its lap. "As stated by Jeremy himself"
The NSX-R run mid to high 12's. It's amazing handling machinery. Built F1 inspired with direct feedback from the 2time F1 champion Arytona Senna. It's loved by EVERYONE who has driven it.
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the_117
"Are you saying that a Diesel engine is designed for the same purposes as an NSX? That’s a great comparison! Cause obviously someone who is looking for a sports car that looks great, and has great performance on a track all the while being wrapped in plush leather and enough technology in the cockpit to make Bill Gates Jealous would go to a JEEP Dealership looking to fill this need?"
are you retarded?
power is power it can either be used to make a car haul ass or a truck haul mass or both.
they don't sell cummins engines in jeeps. the 3.9 engine had been swapped inside my friend's ride. the guy was able to make a 12.7s 1/4 and rice rockets get smashed by the guy left and right at stoplights.
if you put that engine in a lighter sports car, then it'll go even faster and whatever luxury items were inside the car's interior will still be there the powertrain will just be different.
the_117
people who build cars and people who buy cars are different breeds.
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