Class-Action Lawsuit Filed Against Honda Over Civic Hybrid Mileage Claims
A Californian Civic Hybrid owner is suing Honda for failing to live up to its EPA-figured mileage. John True, a professional jazz pianist, filed a class-action suit in U.S. District Court, saying that he averaged just 32 miles per gallon (city/highway combined), well shy of the company’s advertised 49/51.
The lawsuit claims that Honda has intentionally misled consumers about the Civic Hybrid’s fuel economy. His suit notes that the EPA and the car’s window sticker offers a “mileage will vary
Comments
Jeb
Is this the first lawsuit of its type? I can't imagine that it'll be the last.
Chris
Absolutely ridiculous. Why sue Honda when they do not generate the numbers? I believe he should go straight to the source for having completely inadequate testing procedures. Oh wait, no one promised these numbers to him did they? This just proves how litigious and silly our society has become.
chuck goolsbee
He should sue the EPA, not Honda. If sue anyone at all.
That said, he should have bought a Diesel. My Jetta TDI has consistently beat the window sticker figures since the day I bought it.
--chuck
CHARLES G.
So you buy a car based on certain information, including mpg ratings. When the vehicle doesn’t live up to the hype, including mpg, what’s your recourse? Your decisions were based on performance expectations and the manufacturer failed to deliver.
Perhaps it’s time to get away from mpg ratings and go to a different format. Other appliances are ranked/rated as compared to others of the same type in terms of energy consumption. Now the question becomes not so much an issue of mpg per se, rather one of how vehicle A compares to others within a similar class. Or to all vehicles in general.
Granted, efficiency levels are dependent on usage, but baseline standards/ratings could be established.
Mena
He should sue both because Honda uses the mpg figures as a selling point of the car and of course the EPA actually created those figures. Why he's leaving the EPA out of it is beyond me. I'd be pissed to if I was only getting 32 mpg out of a car that's supposedly capable of 49/51 mpg. My current car is rated at 28 mpg city and I get 28 mpg mostly due to 99% highway driving.
Mena
I meant 28 mpg highway. Need edit button.
Juicy
He can't sue the EPA because they specifically say "mileage WILL vary", maybe this will catch and people will realize hybrids are nothing more than hype and a "greener than thou" statement
Sweet Johnson
Matt Damon....
chuck goolsbee
Another thing people fail to remember is that Hybrids were not developed for their fuel efficiency so much as for their lower emissions. Good MPG numbers are a by-product, not a design goal.
California was pushing for zero-emissions cars. If Miles-Per-Gallon was the goal of the California Air Resources Board and their directives, the car makers would have been pushing clean Diesel technology or Diesel-electric hybrids. As it turned out CARB wanted low emissions, so they did their best to kill Diesel (and damn near succeeded) and they mandated electric drivetrains. The Japanese took CARB's directives at face value and began working towards low-emissions cars and electric propulsion. The US automakers instead tried to build for CARB's loopholes and have their pals in D.C. legislate exceptions, hence the rise of body-on-frame trucks, SUV's etc from Detroit.
Unintended consequences indeed.
--chuck
EEGeek
Class action lawsuits are all about getting lots of money for the lawyers while all the "victims" get coupons for oil changes. I wish we had some judges with the cajones to sanction the attorneys (who are officers of the court) that bring these kinds of suits.
Don
So because a guy never bothered to learn throttle control he gets to sue Honda?! If you buy something for mileage, you need to make sure you know how to drive it correctly.
Brad
He doesn't need to sue anyone. Nobody is ever guaranteed that a vehicle will get a certain mileage per gallon.
Ralph
True should be nailed with every dime of the cost for Honda in defending this utterly frivolous lawsuit, and then nailed again for debasing the English language.
More importantly, however, his lawyers should be disbarred.
Then maybe crap like this -- which raises the costs of cars for everyone else -- would stop.
Adam
I'll bet the guy drives like my old roommate: alternating between full throttle and full braking. When I lived with him he had a '03 Accord 5-speed. His MPG was always in the low 20s, even though the car was rated at 34 MPG highway.
I rented a V6 Sonata a couple of weeks ago and had no trouble beating the EPA estimates. It is rated at 20/30 MPG, but I got 24 MPG driving it like a rental car. Out in the country, driving gently with the cruise on 55, it got 37 MPG, better than this guy's hybrid.
Jeff
I know a number of people who have purchased the Civic hybrid, and not a one of them has been able to achieve the kind of mileage Honda\EPA suggests they should be able to reach. Not even on a flat highway, doing a steady 45 miles\hr. The reason the EPA is not getting sued is two-fold, 1) They say mileage WILL vary, and 2) They are in the process of changing their testing procedures and ratings because they know their numbers are wrong.
That being said, I bought a VW Golf Diesel and routinely put the suggested mileage to SHAME. 50+ mpg on the highway.
Honda’s Misleading Advertising Claims « Agency Spy
[...] John True, a Civic Hybrid owner is suing Honda for failing to live up to its EPA-figured mileage. True claims he averaged just 32 miles per gallon, while the car is advertised at 49/51. His suit claims that Honda misled consumers on purpose despite claims on the car, which read “mileage may vary.” Read the whole story here. [...]
tom
This settles it. I am now filing a class action suit against the legal profession for unfair competition. I have been a used car salesman for 40 years and have worked very hard to make sure that my profession would remain the least trusted. Now these lawyers use this class action suit gimmick to steal our rightful place.
Ben
What the hell does he mean "which True’s attorney says implies that it is possible to achieve those lofty figures."? It is absolutely possible to achieve those figures...all you have to do is go over to GreenHybrid and the whole case turns into a freakin joke (not that it isn't already, but it will make everything more obvious for the non-hybrid/car enthusiasts)
Mena
"Another thing people fail to remember is that Hybrids were not developed for their fuel efficiency so much as for their lower emissions. Good MPG numbers are a by-product, not a design goal."
I keep hearing this mentioned and may be true but that's not why people are buying hybrids. People are buying them to get the claimed gas mileage. Yes, there are those that buy to "do their part" but the VAST majority buy them to save gas. Not to mention the manufacturers tout the gas savings big time, not the effect the car has on the environment.
Don
Still, though...is something wrong with his hybrid? 32 mpg? Really?
naggs
a friend has one of these, he gets 40-50 mpg, when his wife drives, she gets 30-40. its like anything else, you have to know how to use it.
sounds to me like the jazz musician is just a shitty driver.
homer
the words "mileage willl vary" saves honda in this matter. It's stupid to try to sue a car maker for poor gas mileage. How does he drive? If he is on the road and using the gas motor more then the electric that can explain this. If he is flooring it out of lights then that explains it. There is so much room to find fault with this.
André
Every car manufacturer uses the EPA highway number, which is based on 1980s guidelines, controlled courses, few stops, and a top speed of 55 mph. The average driver is estimated to run at 70 mph on the freeway. The city driving standards are even more dramatic. Being that I am a jazz lover and have never heard of Mr. True, I would have to think he's seeking someway of making his car payments and rent. The sad thing about it all is that California is a state governed by lunacy, as has been seen by its attorney-general. This man just might be able to win the suit. 32 mpg is very low. Consumer Reports is known for its hard-driving standards, and it came out with 37 overall for the Civic Hybrid. This probably is a speed freak unfamiliar with personal driving tips to improve your mileage--like SLOWING DOWN. I have yet to meet an owner of a current Civic Hybrid or older model who has generated mileage numbers that low.
Dan
When I read he was hanging his legal hat on the word "may", it reminded me of the judge who sued the dry cleaners over their "satisfaction guaranteed" sign.
I've driven a Civic Hybrid, and you'd have to drive the snot out of it on a pretty consistent basis to average 32.
Michelle
Oh for heaven's sake. He's filing a lawsuit based on the word "may" versus the word "will"? By the way, a decent Driver's Ed course "may" help you solve your problems with getting decent gas mileage, there, John.
Unless there is something seriously wrong with the car--which I doubt, as I'm sure Honda would have fixed it before this came to a lawsuit if so (unless of course our buddy John rang the lawyer before calling the dealership... hmmm)--there is no way he could be getting only 32mpg without driving like an absolute lunatic. No, you will almost never achieve the EPA-rated mileage on your car (or at least not the old, pre-"adjusted for typical driving" rate) but you really have to try to miss by that much.
alan
Waaa
Get over it. His problem is that he bought a hybrid and doesn't know how to drive.
Larry
Another crap lawsuit, another idiot driver, another greedy attorney . . .
Tom A.
Dear Mr. True,
Gimme a f*cking break.
Sincerely,
Tom A.
Tom A.
Dear Mr. True,
If you're really concerned about saving fuel/the environment/whatever, try walking. Just don't try chewing gum at the same time, otherwise you might choke (though that might not be a bad thing, because then I wouldn't have to worry about you stealing the oxygen people like me like to breathe).
Sincerely,
Tom A.
P.S.-Worst of luck in court.
Rip
One can only hope that Mr. True doesn't have access to the internet and that little portal by the name of Google. Sure would have saved him a lot of time!!
From the www.fueleconomy.gov/ web site:
EPA tests are designed reflect "typical" driving conditions and driver behavior, but several factors can affect MPG significantly:
* How & Where You Drive
* Vehicle Condition & Maintenance
* Fuel Variations
* Vehicle Variations
* Engine Break-In
Therefore, the EPA ratings are a useful tool for comparing the fuel economies of different vehicles but may not accurately predict the average MPG you will get.
I guess the logical outcome will be for Honda to sue Mr. True, Honda has every right to expect consumers to have an IQ over 5!
dante
What scares me is that this guy drives at all.
André
You can't fix stupid.
However, we can make it punishable by death. Of course, that would mean dozens of celebs, hundreds of politicians, most rappers, and, apparently, some jazz musicians.
Perhaps we should make a petition?
jayson
as a honda civic hybrid owner for over a year i can tell u it is not only possible to achieve the epa ratings but its actually pretty easy when u learn how to drive. i try to cruise as much as possible and am right around the speed limit. my last 4 tanks of gas have averaged 55mpg. i think this guy is beatin the snot outta his car and i hope tha honda finds plenty of owners to refute his claims.
Ara
If the world was flat and there were no hills to climb, I would have no problem getting 60 MPG. I purchased my Civic 9 months ago. I put in the best gasoline and drive like I think my grandmother would drive. I get dirty looks on the freeway since I drive using my mileage gage, trying to get the maximum MPG, thus there are times I’m only going 55 MPH or less in the right lane. For the life of me as conservatively as I drive, I never end up getting more than 41 MPG. I didn’t purchase my Civic to save the world from greenhouse gases, I got it so I could get the most miles from a $3.50 gallon of gas and so far when I do the numbers, my close to $30k Civic is not going to save me any money. I could have purchased 2 cars that DO get 30 MPG for what I’ve paid for my Civic and been well ahead of where I am now since my wife and I would both have cars for the same money I’m shelling out each month for one Civic. And to add insult to injury, my permanent license plates came 5 months after I got the car and I didn’t end up qualifying for the stickers allowing me to drive in the Diamond-lane or get free metered parking in Los Angeles, both added determining factors for me to shell out so much for a car that I’m seeing is not living up to what I was lead to believe it was to be. My advice to those who are thinking about buying a hybrid is to wait about 10 years and just settle for a decent small car that gets 30+ MPG for half the price. BTW, where can I add my name to this class-action lawsuit?
Adam W.
That's what you get for doing your research by reading the "box". Just one quick look at any review of a hybrid and you'll see plenty of warning about how much the mileage can vary! The courts should stop rewarding people for being stupid.
Rob
I have an .07 Civic Hybrid. My average over 2k miles is about 31 mpg. If I don't have 3 bars of battery charged up, there is no power assist and it's quite dangerous to merge into traffic. As I own the car, the battery seems to be holding charge less and less. I paid close to 30k as well. Regretting it very much.
techcommdood
Honda is required by law to have the EPA figures on the car window. The fact that they are incorrect numbers is the EPA's fault and not Honda. Sue the right entity. Honda sold him the car. EPA advertised the numbers.
FWIW, my non-Hybrid Civic (2006) gets about 35 mpg on average. It all depends on HOW you drive the car, not the car itself. Sure, the fact that it's an efficient 4-banger helps... I couldn't get 35 mpg out of a Honda Pilot. ;-)
techcommdood
Rob, I will say that if your car's having performance issues that put you in danger, you should bring the car right back. Hybrid or not, that's just dangerous. Get a normal 4-banger Civic instead if you can. I love mine and the mileage is great for all-dino power.
whynot
Why not suing Honda? Add me to th lawsuit. I shell out about $5000 more for a 2007 Civic Hybrid purely based on 49/50 mpg. I drive on flat road, slowly and steady. Tried every way to save gas. I even drive steady 55mph on high way. Nevertheless, I can only achieve 39mpg. To me, this is a to big difference to be ignored. I am planning to file complain to local BBB for false advertisement.
TekScientia » Honda Civic Hybrid (2007)
[...] Engine/gas consumption: the much touted efficiency of 49-51 mpg of the 110-hp engine lives up to the hype, contrary to much of the contrary opinions here, here (merit less lawsuit), here and here . [...]
cosmin
Dear Chris,
with all due respect to you and the others posting merit less information, I have posted an article about my experience with the 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid at
http://www.tekscientia.com/honda-civic-hybrid/
While not the perfect car and yes, under very good conditions, you can achieve 49-51 mpg or even more. In the article mentioned, I have posted the gotchas and things that one needs to be aware and how to achieve better mileage.
thx,
Cosmin
Jim
I own the Civic H and I can tell you that no matter how I drive, I can’t get anywhere near the old numbers or the new ones. When I first bought it I was getting around 38. Now a year later I’m getting about 32. I always coast to a stop, accelerate slowly, drive below 65 and it makes NO difference.
For those of you folks who say that this is the fault of the EPA and not Honda, they had advertising that backed up the EPA numbers when they knew it was impossible to get them. One add even claimed I could get up to 600 miles on my 11 gallon tank! That’s just plain false advertising. Also, the dealers pumped the hell out of the gas savings to get me to buy the more expensive model for the fuel efficiency…these are Honda trained employees.
The truth is I would be getting the same mileage (or better) if I bought the normal $18k Civic instead of the $23k Civic. Honda should be held accountable…
David
I have an '07 Hybrid and am very dissatisfied with its performance. Honda should be held partially accountable because it uses these lofty MPG claims to sell the car. Everyone at the dealership who I dealt with told me that I'd get between 45-55 mpg. I've changed my driving habits TREMENDOUSLY and get about 32 city (the trip computer usually says about 30, but by my own calculations, I get about 32), and about 40-42 on the highway (again, by my own calculations; the trip computer is a bit on the conservative side, which I suppose is better than overstating the mileage). The mileage I get in the city is 17 MPG less than the EPA estimates, and given that I live, work and go to school in the city and do very little highway driving, having known of this HUGE discrepancy in mileage beforehand would have caused me to not buy the car.
What irks me most is that I've read several blogs online about this, and people post that dealers have told them that there is a "break-in" period for the hybrid engine to perform optimally (i.e. at its best mileage), and this number has ranged from 500 miles to 10,000 miles, according to people's postings. I wrote a lengthy email to my own dealership and got a response back that said, "7,500 mile hybrid engine break-in period." Where do dealers get these arbitrary numbers? If there were a break-in period, I would imagine that it would be a number that all (or most) dealers would know, and not some arbitrary range between 500 and 10,000.
I will be most certainly be contacting my dealer again to see how this discrepancy can be rectified so I don't have to go to court about this. Worst purchase of my life.
Betty
I have a 2003 Honda Hybrid with over 163,000 miles, all freeway and I my mileage has consistently been at
least 45 to 53 miles per gallon.
I have nothing but praise for my 2003. It does need to be driven on the freeway though, I had about 3 months when I was only driving about 4 miles a day in town, and my mileage got down to about 32 miles per gallon.
Do Any Current Cars Meet the New CAFE Standard? - Winding Ro
[...] the EPA’s small car class, the lone victor is the Honda Civic Hybrid, clocking in with a 42 mpg combined rating. The 110-hp 1.4-liter I-4, coupled to a 20-hp electric [...]
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