Cadillac Scraps Future V-8 in Luxury Cars, Favors Direct-Injection V-6
Word on the street was Cadillac's new 3.6-liter direct-injection V-6, used in both the 2008 CTS and STS was good, but it's apparently so good, it actually killed a V-8 program GM was developing. Automotive News reports that the successor for the waning Northstar V-8 has been nixed in favor of furthering the use of V-6 motors.
With crude prices currently at around $100 per barrel, the preference for the fuel economy of a six versus that of an eight is understandable - especially when the six delivers comparable or better performance.
(Click through for more on why Cadillac's choosing six instead of eight)
Take a look at the 2008 STS, which offers both the direct-injection six and the current 4.6-liter Northstar V-8. The Northstar manages 320 hp at 6300 rpm and 315 lb-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. Not bad, but the direct-injection 3.6-liter V-6 puts out 302 hp at 6300 rpm and 252 lb-ft of torque at 5200 rpm. Coupled with the fact that, in rear-drive STS', the V-6 returns fuel economy figures that are two mpg better than the eight, it's increasingly clear that the Northstar is increasingly redundant.
AN reports that the V-6 has already become the predominant engine chosen by buyers in the 2008 STS, and it's likely that high-power, direct-injection V-6s could be used throughout its car lineup with little trouble, save for the XLR and the high-performance V-series line.
But killing the program may have implications elsewhere in the company. Rumor had it that the same upcoming DOHC V8 was to be squeezed into the Lambda platform (GMC Acadia, Buick Rainier, Saturn Outlook) as a premium engine offering.
The Northstar is scheduled to be built until 2010, but after that, don't be surprised to see some form of a high-performance V-6 taking its place in many GM engine bays.
+ Automotive News: GM Cancels V-8 Program for Luxury Cars (subscription may be required)
Comments
Jeb
I wonder if there will be a backlash...a big V8 is still a cachet thing with a lot of lux car buyers.
c4v3man
Does a V6 actually get better mileage when compared to a V8 of similar performance? I thought the ford V8's used in crown vic's were pretty fuel efficient.
dante
If the low-end torque increase of the V8 allows for significant enough change in gearing the V8 can definitely get better mileage with a large vehicle on the highway. This V6 is more advanced than the Northstar V8 and the difference in mileage is not that amazing.
Brock
This is all show, no substance. Lincoln has been given a bird's nest on the ground. Will they run with it?
F. Frederson
Typical GM. Instead of improving the originally very-good-for-its-time Northstar, they start a clean-sheet project, then cancel it.
Why not add DI to the DOHC VVT Northstar?
worldglider
Cadillac need only look to efficient-V6-offering Acura to see this is not the best business plan for a luxury brand. The rich need never worry about gas prices and if they do, they worry about their Prius setting a greater example. Cadillac is on a role and I hope they find other offerings at GM for 8-10-12 cylinder options.
Aaron
I've had my doubts about the northstar V8 ever since Carrol Shelby failed to turn the Aurora V8 (which i think is based off the caddy v8) into any kind of power monster for that not-so-super car he came out with a while back. That signaled to me that the output potential of that design had peaked.
Still, I'm confused. That the northstar is now a dog is all the more reason to design a new DOHC V8, right? Hmmm...Maybe they will start filling all V8 engine applications in their lineup with performance OHV engines. That would actually make sense as even lux car buyers love that 'vette engine rumble, and let's face it, GM has probably poured more money into the advancement of OHV engine design than anyone in the industry. Might as well get more return on that investment.
BTW, anyone know what happened to that twin-cam OHV V6 GM was developing a while back?
The Stig
Worldglider - EXACTLY. If GM was smart, they would examine sales numbers on the RL and take a lesson to heart.
I also agree with Frederson - if they did so well with the V6 and DI, why not put the V8 through the same treatment? Maybe that's too obvious though.....
Mark
Everyone needs to understand that the new CAFE requirements will kill high horsepower performance cars. Unfortunately, this is the right thing for GM to do.
Alex
I think there is more to the story than what was disclosed. Sure, the larger displacement (5.0 liter +) DOHC V8 under development probably doesn't make economic sense given the projected price of oil over the next decade. Additionally, however, I suspect that GM's original motivation for developing the high tech DOHC V8 was heavily premised on a belief that luxury car buyers and enthusiasts won't consider purchasing an overhead valve V8. Even though the newest generation small block V8s match or better competing premium DOHC V8s in terms of weight, packaging, performance, fuel efficiency and refinement, GM officials over the past several years have made public statements about how DOHC engines are the price of entry for premium buyers. Chrysler's brilliant "Hemi" branding campaign, along with the success of the C6 Corvette, has probably caused GM to rethink their assumption that premium buyers won't accept an OHV V8 (plus, the fact that Bentley has had incredible success selling the freakish W12, may also have played a role in the new thinking). IF, in fact, premium buyers are NOT knee-jerk prejuidiced against OHV engines, and if small block devleopment can keep pace with DOHC development over the next 5-7 years (at a fraction of the cost), the rationale for the DOHC V8 disappears completely. That, I suspect, is the real story here. It isn't that Cadillac and GM are abandoning V8s after 2010 -- it is that GM is betting its continued development of the small block V8 will be money better spent and a potential competitive advantage over the next decade.
Chavis
Evan McCausland- your stats are all wrong. The Northstar makes 315 lbs-ft at 4400 rpm, not 5200. The DI version of the CTS makes 273 lbs-ft at 5200, not 252. Also, the DI 3.6 is SAE rated while the LH2 version of the Northstar is not meaning it will make less than 320hp if it became certified.
F Frederson- the northstar does not have provisions for direct injection. Reengineering all necessary components would be cost prohibitive.
Aaron- remember, GM DOHC V8s are comparitively low volume compared to the Small Blocks. Unless the defunct Ultra V8 would've been used in more applications, it wouldn't have made much sense to create. If Cadillac buyers are more reluctant to check the V8 option box, then the developement time and money would have been for nought. The high feature V6 has provisions for turbocharging so look for a high output directly injected turbo charged version in the future with horsepower in the 330+ range.
Jesda
Northstar didnt become a dependable motor until 2000. 93-99 suffered from nasty head gasket failures.
Winding Road » Archive » Cadillac Looks to Shift Engines in
[...] Additionally, General Motors has already announced that it doesn’t intend to replace the long-serving Northstar V-8 that has powered Cadillacs since [...]
European
Sure, it has to be a big blow in the face for all car lovers in the US that Cadillac plans to scrap their V8's. What I can't understand is why Americans don't see the greater potential in lighter cars with high-tech engines with less displacement?
I've driven my share of american muscle cars, but they're crap compared to every european car I've driven. The only thing american car makers really do well is the sound. And frankly, that doesn't justify any V8 when a 2-litre engine with turbo can deliver the same hp and torque as a low-tech american V8 (yes, that is what they are!). For instance: Opel Astra OPC (2-litre, 240bhp, 355Nm torque) that utilizes a lot of light alloys and other composite materials, hence weights a fraction of the average US-car, and costs the same, beats any american car regarding handling, top speed, acceleration and fuel effeciency.
What really is weird, is the fact that american car builders have the technology at hand, but won't use it. Instead they utilize 50 year old engine technology that is outdated by many decades.
Therefore: Good luck and good bye in times with oil prices exceeding 200$.
Winding Road » Archive » Stop the Hearse! GM Says V-8 not De
[...] General Motors killed its Ultra V-8 program last month, but Tom Stephens, GM’s group vice president for global powertrain and [...]
F. Frederson
F Frederson- the northstar does not have provisions for direct injection. Reengineering all necessary components would be cost prohibitive.
Cost more than a clean sheet design how, exactly?
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